Backing into an unseen solid body at a Pasadena garden center
An unnamed caller tells Art Bell that in 1988, shortly after graduating high school, they backed into what they describe as a ghost. They were cutting paper in a room of a garden center in Pasadena, California. They report feeling a body, stepping on its foot and pushing it back, then finding the room empty. The caller says they ran outside, then returned and were told by employees that up to three people had killed themselves on the site.
This clip comes from the source recording. AI chose where it starts and ends, so it may start or end a little early or late. The word-for-word transcript is not published. You can hear the source recording on the Internet Archive (file “Ghost to Ghost 2013.mp3”, starting at 2:35:58). Is this you, or someone you know? Ask for a correction or removal.
The story as told
The caller's name is not given. They say their [quote withheld] when they had just graduated high school and were working at a garden center in Pasadena, California. They describe the property as a good place to work, with many of its structures dating from the early 1900s. One day, they say, they were in one of those buildings, in a room about 15 by 15, standing against one of the sides of the building and cutting up paper. They say they [quote withheld] Asked by Art Bell how one knows that, the caller says they felt the person behind them when they stepped back. Their foot ended up on another foot, so their heel did not touch the ground, and they felt as though they pushed a body back. They turned around, they say, expecting their boss, whom they thought had sneaked up behind them, but the room was large and there was nothing there. The caller says they turned around and said “I'm sorry.” The caller does not think they got the word out. Then they ran, by their account a couple of hundred feet out into the street, before coming back and talking to a couple of employees at the store. According to the caller, those employees told them that up to three people had killed themselves on that site. Bell replies that the caller “definitely” had an encounter. He says he would not call it a disembodied spirit because [quote withheld] The caller gives no name, no more precise date than the year, and no names of the business or the employees.
Reported events, in order
- 0:08
The caller says their story goes back to 1988, when they had just graduated high school and were working at a garden center in Pasadena, California.
- 0:22
The caller says many of the structures on the property dated from the early 1900s.
- 0:28
The caller says that one day they were in one of the buildings, in a room about 15 by 15, standing against one of its sides cutting up paper.
- 0:39
The caller says they backed up into what they call a ghost.
- 0:52
The caller reports feeling a person behind them when they stepped back.
- 0:55
The caller says their foot ended up on another foot so their heel did not touch the ground, and that they felt as if they pushed a body back.
- 1:03
The caller says they turned around expecting their boss and found the large room empty.
- 1:25
The caller says they turned around and said “I'm sorry,” possibly not finishing the word, and then ran.
- 1:31
The caller says they ran about a couple of hundred feet out into the street, came back, and talked to a couple of employees.
- 1:45
The caller says the employees told them up to three people had killed themselves on that site.
- 1:58
Bell responds that the caller definitely had an encounter and that he would not call it a disembodied spirit because the spirit “had a body.”
Claims
Each claim is labeled as something the person telling the story noticed (observation), what they made of it (interpretation), something others told them (hearsay), or something the host said (host statement).
- interpretation· 0:39
While cutting paper the caller backed up into what they call a ghost.
- observation· 0:52
The caller felt a person behind them when they stepped back.
- observation· 0:55
The caller's foot landed on a foot behind them, so their heel did not reach the ground.
- observation· 0:55
The caller felt as though they pushed a body back.
- observation· 1:03
The caller turned around expecting their boss, and the large room was empty.
- hearsay· 1:49
Employees at the garden center told the caller that up to three people had killed themselves on that site.
- host statement· 1:58
Bell says the experience was an encounter and that the presence was not a disembodied spirit because it had a body.
Scores, with reasons
An AI model gave these scores using a fixed set of scoring rules (scoring-v1). They are editorial judgments and rough guides, not the odds that anything paranormal happened. How scoring works.
This is a brief but clearly firsthand story with concrete anchoring details (Pasadena, 1988, a 15-by-15 room, a specific physical sequence). It is internally coherent and answers the host's direct question. But ordinary explanations for a single brief physical sensation are not addressed, and nothing backs it up beyond a claimed site history supplied secondhand.
Evidence for and against
- Firsthand, self-described direct experience: [quote withheld]
- Concrete setting and sequence: [quote withheld]; [quote withheld]
- The caller reports checking the obvious ordinary possibility by turning around: [quote withheld]
- No names, no exact date, no business name. Nothing is checkable beyond a city and year.
- A single, very brief sensation with no second witness on air and no physical trace.
- The site-history claim comes from unnamed employees and is not tested.
- The transcript breaks the story into short fragments around the employees' statement, so the exact wording of the site history is uncertain.
- The labels showing who is speaking are unreliable, making it unclear in places which lines are the caller's and which the host's.
- 0:08
- 0:55
- 1:03
What the model inferred (not said on air): Component judgment (not spoken by the caller): source proximity 16 (firsthand but very brief), specificity 11, internal consistency 15, alternative explanations 8 (an object or a person is plausible and unaddressed), calibration 8, for a total of 58.
The only support is the caller's own word plus a city and year that could in principle be checked, with no names or records and no other witness on air. This falls in the range for [quote withheld]
Evidence for and against
- A stated place and year: [quote withheld] and “1988.”
- A described physical layout: [quote withheld]
- No business name, no employee names, and no documentation, photograph, or recording mentioned.
- The claimed site history is hearsay from unnamed employees, and no second witness speaks on air.
- Whether the garden center could be identified from the given details is unknown and was not attempted on air.
- 0:08
- 1:49
What the model inferred (not said on air): The scoring guide caps evidence without an outside check at 50. Here nothing beyond the caller's word and a city and year is present, so the low range (11–25) applies. It is set at 12 because no named or recorded element exists.
The story turns on unexpected physical contact with something solid that cannot be seen, in an ordinary workplace. It closes with a secondhand claim of multiple suicides on the site. It is unsettling but short, without threat, escalation, or sustained dread.
Evidence for and against
- Physical contact with an unseen solid body: [quote withheld]
- The empty room on turning around: [quote withheld]
- The closing claim of deaths on the site: “killed themselves.”
- The story is brief and ends with the caller running away and the host's commentary, not with ongoing menace.
- No injury, no threat, no bedroom or child element, no repeated activity.
- Whether any emotional or atmospheric detail was lost in the fragmented transcription is unknown.
- 0:55
- 1:49
What the model inferred (not said on air): Placed below the “genuinely unsettling” benchmark (50) because the episode is a single short event with no threat or escalation. It is above “mildly eerie” because of the vivid physical intrusion and the claimed deaths on the site.
The frame, a workplace with a claimed history of deaths and a worker who flees, is familiar. But the core detail of colliding with an unseen body so solid that the caller's foot lands on its foot and the caller pushes it back is a distinctive variant on the usual ghost sighting or cold-spot report.
Evidence for and against
- An encounter by touch alone with an apparently solid body: [quote withheld]
- The specific detail of standing on the unseen figure's foot: [quote withheld]
- The setting (old buildings, a workplace, claimed deaths on site) uses common haunted-location elements: [quote withheld]
- The caller never sees a figure, so distinctive visual motifs are absent.
- Originality is provisional. The published value blends this model score with how rare the motifs are in the archive, which is weighted lightly in a small pilot archive.
- 0:55
- 0:22
What the model inferred (not said on air): Judged as a familiar haunted-workplace frame carrying one unusual, concrete detail, hence just above the midpoint of the originality scale.
Scoring confidence 0.60 · analysis confidence 0.70 · checked against outside sources: no · evidence available: The caller's firsthand testimony only; No photograph, recording, or document claimed; A claimed site history reported secondhand from unnamed employees, not examined; No second witness speaks on air. The originality score blends the model's score (58) with how rare the story's details are across the archive. This method is still provisional.
Ordinary explanations to consider
These are possibilities only. None is a finding about what happened.
- A misjudged step: the caller may have stepped back onto an object, an uneven floor, or a piece of the paper they were cutting, and read the unexpected resistance as a body. · The caller describes only a brief physical sensation with no visual confirmation, noting that when they turned around [quote withheld] in a room they describe as large.
- The caller backed into a living person, for example their boss or a coworker, who moved away or left before the caller completed the turn. · The caller says they first assumed it was their boss: [quote withheld] in a working garden center with employees present.
What stands out
The reported strange event is a purely physical collision with an apparently solid, unseen person. The caller never reports seeing a figure, only feeling weight, a foot, and a body that they pushed back. The site's claimed history comes from unnamed employees and was not witnessed by the caller.
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